P O L I T I C S O N L I N E INTERVIEWER: PHIL NOBLE INTERVIEWEE: JIMMY ORR SOURCE FILE: JIMMY_ORR.RM FILE LENGTH: 23 MINUTES PHIL NOBLE: Well, we're talking with Jimmy Orr today, the man who runs the White House website. Welcome to PoliticsOnline Interview, Jimmy. JIMMY ORR: Thanks, Phil, good to talk to you. PN: Yeah, man. So tell me, what's it like to run the White House website? That must be an exciting job. JO: Well, it is an exciting job. You know, it's a unique niche here in the White House, of course, one that's grown, I think, in influence over the years. You know, it's - Internet is, when you take a look at it in a macro sense, it's still very young, and it's evolved so rapidly over the course of a small amount of time. And my colleague, the person that ran the site in the past administration, you know, did a great job back in his day. And we've seen technology increase and the amount of people online increase. And I think that we've really taken advantage of that. And I think it's appreciated here in the White House, as well, I mean, the - we've done some - we've done some fun things. It's a unique niche, and it's a - really, I've got to tell you, Phil, it is a exciting position to be in. And as I was explaining to someone today, you know, this is a - it's a real niche. I mean, nobody else does this. We've got a real solid team. And because it's - because there's a lot of creativity, and there's a lot of flexibility with what you can do with the Internet, you get to do a lot of - you get to do a lot of interesting, creative, and - and at times groundbreaking projects. And so the course over the last three and a half years has been very exciting. PN: Tell us about two or three of the projects that you're most proud of. JO: I will. You know, when I go out and speak, I talk about the importance of two things. We've all heard that content is king, and that's still very much the case. And so when you're working on a site, you've got to think, you know, what can you offer that nobody else can? What do you possess that will draw people to your site? Now, early on, when we were redesigning the site and coming up with our mission statement, our site was simply press releases and photos. And I'll tell you that, although that's good to have, I mean, everybody has those. I mean, you can go to any news site. You can go to CNN. You can go to The New York Times, Washington Post, Fox, whatever, and you can have that same material. So you've got to - you've got to provide something more than that. And so you've got to be able to - you've got to be able to offer something really unique. And that's what our thought was when we put together our mission statement. One was to communicate the President's message, and two was to showcase the rich history and traditions of the White House. And so I think there's a couple things that we're very proud of here. And one is interactivity. And interactivity is - really is the future. It's the - it's the growth of a quality website. And that is, when people log on to your site, do they know it's alive? Do they know that what you say is reaching the host of the website? And that's something that I think that we've really taken advantage of, and we're really leading the field in, in two areas. One is "Ask the White House," and we try to have a different guest on every day. We usually have, and I think four times a week, we have somebody new. PN: Huge variety of folks y'all have had on. I've paid attention to that reasonably closely. That's a lot of great folks. JO: Yeah, we do, I mean, we had Dan Bartlett on a couple days ago. We had Jim Wilkinson, the Director of Communications for the National Security Council on yesterday. And being topical, today we have the Director of the National Hurricane Center on today, which we try to do. But I - and I tell you what, that's important. And what's - what is important, and there's been articles out there about what "Ask the White House" does, and the articles have been on both sides. It's one, you know, there are questions that are more human interest oriented, and that's important because that puts a face, a humanizing element on the people that work here. But also the tough questions. And we encourage people to take the critical questions, the harsh questions, the combative questions at time because, as I explained in an interview a couple weeks ago, you know, if we just put up talking points, we just put up the red meat for conservatives, are the transcripts going to be taken seriously, and are the conversations, the chats going to be visited? And the answer to that is no. If it's looked at as it's contrived, Phil, people aren't going to do it. But we've seen traffic rise significantly from "Ask the White House." And the questions that we get in are more numerous now than when we first started. And of course the media pays attention to it, as well. We've proven that, in the online world, you can lead news in the online world through this medium called "Ask the White House." We can get our message out, which is important. But more importantly is the fact that people can interact with the senior leaders here at the White House, and the Cabinet officials. They can email their questions in. And we're not going to dodge them. We're going to take them. Can we take every one? That's impossible. But we try to take the questions that are indicative of the masses. And that... PN: But what... JO: Go ahead. PN: I was just going to say, what kind of traffic are you getting with that, in terms of the audience? JO: Well, in terms - you know, we can't track individual users. We don't have that ability. Federal regulations prohibit us from doing that. PN: Oh, that's interesting. JO: Yeah. Which is fine. Which is fine. But we, you know, our measuring stick is, you know, we go through hits and page views. And I can tell you that, when we were averaging a million hits per day back in 2001, and we're up to about 25 million per day now, I mean, that's a huge increase. And that's our measuring stick. Is it perfect? No. But at least it's reliable, and we're able to, you know, it's a good barometer. PN: Is that 25 million hits a day? Is that what you're getting? JO: It is. PN: Yeah. JO: It is. And but we've always - we've always measured in hits. So it's gone up significantly, if you go from one to 25 million. PN: Sure. JO: It's - it's a good increase. And what's more importantly, too, is if we - if we put up a frank exchange between people that come in that don't necessarily agree with the President's position on something, and we put that up, one is it's a responsible thing to do, and to answer those questions. It's part of democracy. But, two, the media does take it - does note that. Ed Chen from the L.A. Times wrote earlier this week, was talking about Dan Bartlett's chat, White House Communications Director, and perhaps he said it was one of the toughest, if not the toughest, "Ask the White House" session that he had seen. And Dan did. Every question that he took was critical, as I recall. And but that's important, man. I mean, it's important to take the questions that challenge what you're doing. Because if, you know, if you believe in this presidency, in this President, you've got to be able to back up what we're doing. And so that's for an educational background. And, two, if there are questions out there, let's answer them. PN: Yeah. What's been your biggest surprise in working on the White House site? JO: Well, let me - let me mention one other thing... PN: Oh, sure. JO: ...real quick, Phil. And that's in terms of interactivity. We have this other feature called "White House Interactive." And that's our attempt to be a bit more bloggier. We're not quite there. But what that is is you can ask a question about anything, and then we farm it out to the appropriate people, and they respond. And that's important, too, in one, you know, it makes your site alive, and it provides that unique content that is so important. You've got to update your site every single day. You've got to have new stuff. And, two, you can - you can react to news, or you can lead a message. And one of the things that was important was there was an erroneous report out there from an individual that said Scott McClellan, you know, White House Press Secretary, hasn't been meeting with reporters of the White House for over a month. And that's not true. But it was said on national TV. And that's - and that's not true at all. And so a question came in following that news program that asked about that. I sent that question to Scott. Scott typed out a message within minutes, and we put that on our home page. Very real question from somebody that got some in- misinformation from a morning news program, a guest on a morning news program. And Scott was able to set the record straight. So, you know, that's the importance. If people know that your site is alive, and it's active, and it's interactive, more people will travel to that site; and that's - that's what we try to do. We're really - we're really quite proud of our - of our interactive efforts. PN: Well, do you - it's just an enormously rich site, too. I mean, I think that's one of the things that - it's beyond - I mean, one of the things I think is interesting, it is beyond just sort of information. It's a resource site. I mean, there's an awful lot in there, you know, and lots of different directions. But anyway, back to the surprise question. What's been your biggest surprise? JO: See, the biggest surprise in working here at the White House, or in my position, or... PN: With the - on the site. Working, doing the Internet stuff at the White House. What's... JO: Well, I'll tell you that one of the things that could be surprising, it's no longer surprising; but when we really ramped up our efforts and, you know, we decided on the design and decided about the different things that we would be doing, I guess a measure of the surprise was the - getting the involvement of the most senior people here in the White House and Cabinet secretaries to participate. I think that it's just not people that have had a computer since they were, you know, very young, and... PN: Right. JO: ...who used to go on BBS's instead of the Internet, you know, I had my Commodore 64 and used to do - and used to do all that. But people that didn't grow up, you know, liking the technology, certainly understand the power of it. And so getting the involvement of the senior-most people in - in the administration has been - has been relatively easy. And of course that is, you know, you can go on our site and see the participation of many people in the administration, the uppermost on the site. So, you know, that was a surprise at the beginning that there wasn't that, well, I don't know, this crazy Internet thing. PN: Yeah. JO: There's been that - just the acceptance and the understanding that this is a really powerful communications tool. So that was a surprise early on. But no longer. I mean, it's accepted, and it's respected as a, you know, like I say, a powerful communications tool. PN: The one, if you had to pick one thing that simply got the most press attention, it's got to be Barney Cam; right? JO: Yeah, and it - Barney Cam was... PN: (Unintelligible). JO: Yeah, Barney Cam was a big hit. And some people underestimate, or they don't - they may not understand the importance of a tool like that. And let me explain. And that is that a lot of people aren't policy wonks. A lot of people, when it comes to politics, when it comes to issues and ideology, they have a passing interest. But that's not what they're focused on. They're not watching Politics Today, and they're not subscribing to PoliticsOnline and watching Meet the Press. They don't do that. And so where do they, you know, where do they get their, you know, their - their political news? It's passing. And so you've got to break through to the masses in creative ways. And one of the ways that we did that was, you know, through the creation of Barney Cam. And, you know, it started off in 2002 when tours were canceled because of terrorist concerns, and so, and the - and the theme that year was All Creatures Great and Small, which was a tribute to presidential pets. And so we came up with the idea of putting a video camera on Barney's head, President - the President's dog, and running him through the White House with Christmas music, looking at the decorations. It was relatively simple, and we did that. Barney wouldn't wear the video camera on his head, so we had people follow behind him. And we did that, and it was a very simple video. It was a pleasant video. It was nice video. And the amount of news coverage that we received on that was phenomenal. And traffic to the site exploded. And so the people came to see Barney Cam and watch the video, but then went and looked at other portions of our site. And we saw that. We saw a general increase in all areas of the site. So they went because they saw Barney Cam on Meet the Press, or they saw Barney Cam on CNN or Fox or wherever they saw it. PN: Right. JO: And then they went off to other parts of the site and became familiar with the site. So last year we did Barney Cam - Barney Cam II: Barney Reloaded. And the amount of press that we got on that, Phil, was phenomenal. It was - and it's a funny video. And, you know, The New York Times critiqued it, and they said, this year's Barney Cam is - the plot is more complex than last year's, which had no plot. PN: Right. JO: And it was funny, it was a funny video. And the amount of press this received was absolutely incredible, you know? And the number of video downloads per day increased from a few thousand to well over a million. And once again, what people did is they came to the site to watch this, you know, this - this Christmas video, and then ventured off into other parts of the site. Which tells you something. It tells you something about content and the importance of content. It tells you about the importance of, how would I say, it's the importance of video. As more and more people have broadband access, it's something that can be used. And it's a - and I've got to tell you, it's an effective way to communicate. Yes, it's lighthearted. The people also like the personality of the White House. And so it proved - it proved to do two things. One, bring an enormous amount of traffic to the White House, and then travel throughout the rest of the Internet site, so it further helped our brand, WhiteHouse.gov. And then, two, the media coverage that we received on it only intensified the number of visitors that we had. And so it was a win-win. And with very little criticism. And we expect that there will be criticism. But overall, it's a very good thing. PN: Yeah. And you do the Picture of the Day with him. JO: We do the Barney Photo of the Day, which is now in our - one of the - sometimes it cracks the top ten. But again, it's a, you know, there's always been a love of the presidential pets. You can go back to, you know, Macaroni during the Kennedy administration, or Checkers, or whomever, Millie. You can go further back when I think the Coolidges had a raccoon. But it's just something that a lot of America, because they're not focused on policy, and the majority of our website is policy oriented, and... PN: Sure. JO: ...and the President's message. But there's also a history side, and this would follow under the history or the kids' section of the White House, and it's popular. But again, it's that web-exclusive content. It's what we have. And I will tell you, Phil, that, as the focus has been a, of course, an increase in the focus in the campaign. And so that limits what we can do on our site. PN: Yeah. JO: We can put up the remarks because that's, you know, the White House distributes those remarks. But we don't highlight them on our web page. PN: Sure. JO: They're there. PN: Yeah. JO: So we have to be creative in what we put on our home page. And so what we rely on are things like "Ask the White House," "White House Interactive," "White House Radio," things that we produce ourself. PN: So what's next? What can we look forward to? JO: Well, I think the imp- you know, the importance will still be in interactivity. And one of the things that I mentioned quickly was the - was "White House Radio." And that's important in that we have different people in the administration that are out talking on talk shows and news programs or whatever. It's important, then, you know, if you live in Cleveland, and Secretary Ridge happens to be talking on a radio station in Cleveland, that's great, if you listen to it at that time, and if you're in Cleveland. But the rest of the country doesn't get it. So what we do is we take these radio interviews and put them on the website and allow the rest of the country to hear them, as well. And that's important because, once again, it's web-exclusive content, and it updates the site. And I, you know, I continually talk about that. As far as interactivity goes in the future, which is really the - I think the key is, you know, you let the people know that you're there, and you're listening to them, and that you're alive. And one of the things that I can see this evolve into, and it should do, is that, when a question comes in, it should be answered, one, in textual form, which we're doing right now. But also the individuals where it should be a video, as well. And so, and that can - we can do that with "Ask the White House." And so when we get Jim Wilkinson, Communications Director for the NSC, or Dan Bartlett, or whomever, to appear on "Ask the White House," you know what it really should be, it should be that, you know, as the emails are coming in, and I can - I can look at the emails when they're coming in, and I'll say, "Dan, you know, Sandy from Cincinnati wants to know this." And so we make it more of a, you know, we make it more of a news program. I think that that is our next step in interactivity. And that will increase the traffic to our site, as well, because there's that visual element. So I see that - I see that as probably the next big thing. PN: Well, whatever the next big thing is, when it comes out of the White House, it gets even bigger; right? So we appreciate your taking the time to talk to us today, and this is the, I think, the fourth PoliticsOnline interview with Jimmy Orr, who runs the White House website. I started to say WhiteHouse.com, but that's not yours. JO: That is not ours. We wouldn't mind having that domain, though. PN: Or, I think, WhiteHouse.org is also not yours, either. That... JO: That's not our - or WhiteHouse.net. But we'd surely like to have them. And let me say this, Phil. We certainly appreciate what you do in terms of politics in the online world. It's something that's read here at the White House. And it's very important. And you can see in the amount of readers that you have that you're doing a great job. It's a, you know, it's a - it's important, as are the bloggers out there. And so we appreciate all who participate in that media. PN: Well, thank you. We appreciate the kind words. And we will hopefully do this again soon. JO: Look forward to it. END INTERVIEW WITH JIMMY ORR Transcribed 09/28/04 • Elaine Farris • 760-248-2070 POLITICSONLINE/JIMMY ORR 18 1